About us






      WE, ORTHODOX
      HERBERTARIANS










        OUR MANIFESTO
        (by Hunchback Jack & others│Revised version)


        This is a board for all of those that enjoy classic Dune, and DO NOT accept the novels of Brian Herbert & Kevin J. Anderson as Dune. We believe that Frank Herbert's Dune is and should be considered a Classic Masterpiece of American Literature, in the same rank as works of Twain, Hemingway, Pound, Faulkner etc.



        ❒ . WHAT IS JACURUTU?

          Jacurutu is a message board for discussing the original six books of Frank Herbert's Dune series : the Dune Chronicles. We discuss the books, the characters, the themes, and get into more details than you can image. We also discuss other Dune sources, such as the Dune Encyclopedia, Frank Herbert's other books, and topics completely unrelated to Dune.

          In addition to our common respect for Frank Herbert's work, we also have a common dissatisfaction with the new Dune novels of Kevin J. Anderson. Among our members, this dissatisfaction ranges from a simple refusal to read the books to intense fury whenever the books are even mentioned. You'll quickly figure out where members lie in that spectrum.

          Everyone is welcome to join the discussion. You don't have to know everything about Dune to participate, you just have to like the original Dune Chronicles and want to talk about it. A healthy dislike for the new Dune books is not required, but it is greatly recommended.

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          ❒ . WHY ARE YOU "THE CAST OUT"? CAST OUT FROM WHERE?

          Jacurutu was created as a haven for the people cast out from other forums for criticizing the new Dune books.

          When the new Dune novels were first published, not everyone was happy with the result, and many said so on many existing Dune forums. As more books were published, the dissatisfaction grew, and the criticism became more pronounced.

          Some of these forums, including the defunct official Dune forum, started deleting posts that were too critical, and then started banning members for posting negative comments of the new Dune books (2007).

          At Jacurutu, members can vent their frustration about how bad the new books are without fear of censorship or ban from the forum. But, first of all, we strongly encourage all to share their reflections and post positive comments about Frank Herbert's Chronicles and other original works.



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          ❒ . SO WHAT'S WRONG WITH THE NEW DUNE BOOKS, ANYWAY?

          It would take many thousands of lines to explain all the ways that the new books do not measure up to the original six books, and the best way to get all the details is to read the forum. But here are the basic objections we have:
          • Many of the books introduce major elements which are flatly contradicted by the original series.
          • Many of the books that take place before the original series steal elements from later books, introducing them far too early, and spoiling the later books.
          • The entire Legends of Dune series portrays the Butlerian Jihad is a way counter to the hints given in the original series.
          • The Heroes of Dune books, which take place in-between the books of the original series, contradict the events of the originals, and reduce them to in-universe texts to explain away the contradictions. They also greatly lessen the impact of reading the originals.
          • The Dune 7 series, ostensibly the purpose behind all these new books, was a meandering mess of plot lines that went nowhere, flat characters that did nothing, and a deus ex machina ending that resolved nothing. It was an outrage and an embarassment.

          ❒ . YOU SEEM TO MAKE A LOT OF PERSONAL ATTACKS AGAINST THE NEW-DUNE AUTHORS. WHY IS THAT?

          There has been a long history of animosity between the authors of the new dune series and their detractors. This is partly due to the way that the Dune books have been presented to Dune fans, and partly due to the actions of the authors themselves. On our part, we feel a great deal of anger toward Kevin J. Anderson in particular, for the following reasons:
          • Deception. It was always implied by the authors that they were fulfilling Frank Herbert's intentions for Dune by writing all the new Dune books. The House trilogy and Legends books were necessary to prepare the way for Dune 7, which would be based on an outline by Frank Herbert himself. It has become clear that this claim was all a ruse to entice Dune fans into buying lousy books.
          • Slander. Soon after disgruntled Dune fans started pointing out inconsistencies between the new Dune books and the originals, KJA was quoted in interviews as referring to these fans as "Talifans". We object to being associated with terrorists.
          • Arrogance. Not the attitude of someone humbled by the opportunity to work in the Dune universe.
          • Graft. KJA SF, which gives incentive to fans to game the review systems of amazon and other sites, by writing favourable reviews.
          Having said all this, our main objection to KJA is that he is writing terrible Dune books. If he would stop doing that, all is forgiven.








          WHO WE ARE AND WHAT WE STAND FOR
          (by Freakzilla)


          That's how I wrote the novel, wanting you to participate with the best of your own imagination. I did not aim for the lowest common denominator and 'write down" to anyone. You and I have a compact and my responsibility is to entertain you as richly as possible, always giving you as much extra as I can. I assume you are intelligent and will enlist your own imagination. You'll see that when you read the Dune excerpt and the other stories in this collection.
          ~Frank Herbert, Intro to Eye

          Looking back on it, I realize I did the right thing instinctively. You don't write for success. That takes part of your attention away from the writing. If you're really doing it, that's all you're doing: writing. There's an unwritten compact between you and the reader. If someone enters a bookstore and sets down hard earned money (energy) for your book, you owe that person some entertainment and as much more as you can give. That was really my intention all along.
          ~Frank Herbert, Intro to Heretics of Dune


          ❒ . I, FREAKZILLA

          First, a little about me. I first read Dune at age thirteen in 1984, just before the David Lynch movie hit the big screen, and was immediately hooked. I caught up with the series soon afterwards and read Heretics of Dune and Chapterhouse: Dune as they were published. Then I read everything else FH wrote that I could find. I even read the entire Dune Encyclopedia complied by Dr. Willis McNelly. I was devastated when I learned of my new favorite author's death. Since then I've read the series roughly once a year,give or take.

          Years later came the internet and discussion forums. I lurked at Dreamers of Dune for about a year, afraid to expose my ignorance, but after building up the courage to chance participating in the discussion I found that I was gaining credibility in knowledge of the Dune series and became an active member. DoD eventually died and since then I've been a fixture in whatever Dune forum(s) was the most active, sometimes in multiple forums. Sometimes as a member, sometimes as moderator or administrator.

          Eventually in 1999 I was thrilled to read news that Brian Herbert and Kevin J. Anderson were planning to continue the series. I eagerly bought and read the new Dune books and was sorely disappointed to say the least. I could have tolerated the abysmal writing if the authors had bothered to pretend they understood Frank Herbert's books and remained consistent with his themes and details. I wouldn't be surprised if I found out the new authors haven't even read the originals.


          ❒ . WHO WE ARE, ORTHODOX HERBERTARIANS

          When the Herbert estate opened a Dune Novels bulletin board in 2006, I immediately joined and voiced my disdain, for which I was immediately banned. I emailed the administrator, Frank Herbert's grandson Byron Merritt, and upon apologizing for personally insulting the authors and promising to refrain from doing it again was allowed to rejoin the forum. There I proceeded to make 5,691 posts before eventually being banned again and am still, years after being banned, the leading poster there.

          I wasn't the only one banned for voicing their negative opinions of the new books, not by far. Most of the knowledgeable people I'd come to know in the Dune fan community felt the same way I did and the Dunenovels standard operating procedure for dealing with negative comments is to ban the member. Eventually this lead to only the most mindless discussion there and I saw an opportunity for a new Dune fan forum where members would not be censored. So I started Jacurutu, named after the Cast Out in Children of Dune. This leads to...
          ❒ . WHAT WE STAND FOR

          First of all, this is not an anti-KJA/BH forum. This is a FH's Dune fan forum.

          However, current events in the world of Dune have drawn fire towards the new authors for what many fans consider raping and milking FH's legacy for profit, and that is the topic du jour. If I had my way, we'd only be discussing FH's works but one of the ideas this forum was founded on was to let the discussion take it's own course without censorship. So that is the way it goes.

          Contrary to what some might say, we are not against the continuation of the Dune series in any medium. We are against BADLY continuing Dune in any medium. The Herberts have hired a notorious hack to bring them a steady paycheck with a total lack of respect for the deep and serious ideas and themes present in FH's legacy and have turned it into a McDune franchise. It's a shame that none of the many qualified, GOOD authors have not had a chance to do FH's legacy justice. At least, if they aren't going to give a real author a shot, they should stop defiling Dune with the pulp space opera crap they've been churning out.

          Well, that's the gist of it.







          I exist only to serve,

          Freakzilla

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